Curse

Guardian Legend · May 15, 2005, 05:15 AM // 05:15

This is just random nonsense and not to be taken seriously :P Although I can dream... can't I?

If ArenaNet plays its cards right, I think Guild Wars is destined to be a classic.
And classics often branch into totally different genres. Starcraft is being turned into a third-person action game with Ghost. Dungeons and Dragons was turned into an action game and an upcoming RTS game. I think the Guild Wars universe could be a great FPS or RTS game.

Maybe this game is too old for some gamers to know about.. but some of my favorite FPS games were the Heretic and Hexen games. Especially Hexen. Hexen 2 , to my knowledge, was the last fantasy action FPS game. You chose from 5 classes, and ran around collecting loot and beating up enemies in a very fast paced game. Playing multiplayer was great as you could form a party and explore the game together. Nothing has really been like Hexen 2 since it came out 8 years ago in 1997.

So I'd love to see a Guild Wars FPS game in the style of Hexen. Transfer the spirit of Guild Wars into the game. Don't need to follow the rules precisely, just maintain the general idea.

Imagine being a Ranger, getting headshots with your bow. Or a Warrior, where you run up to an enemy and manually aim your axe towards their legs for a Hamstring attack.

An RTS Guild Wars game is a much more logical next step for a GW franchise though. I'm not a big RTS fan but I can imagine it could be a great game. Another option would be to make hybrid games. Guild Wars RTS-RPG. Where each team has a commander player who controls the resources and NPC AI units, while each player serves as a "hero", not unlike those of Warcraft 3 or Dawn of War. Or how about an RTS-RPG-FPS game? That's a lot of genres.

You're a hero running through a huge battlefield of AIs being controlled by commanders. They're not mindless drones rushing into their deaths. Instead they are being intelligently controlled by a higher power. But in the end, you and the other PC heroes are engines of destruction and can play a pivotal role in how the battle unfolds...

(See Battlezone 2, Allegiance, Savage, or Natural Selection for examples of this. All four games were flops, but I think because of design mistakes that ArenaNet would avoid....)

WraithlordGV · May 15, 2005, 07:50 AM // 07:50

There is always one of these threads, and I always despise them.

"Wouldnt it be cool if this rpg was a fps?"

No, it wouldnt.

Thats all there is too it, I know all to well what fevered dreams go through the mind of a person enthralled with a game, but trust me, once you actually settle down and enjoy the game for what it is, and not for what it will be in a day or two, your desire to rave like a lunatic will die down.

Another thing, buckwheat, Ghost has been passed around game producers like a cheap hooker at a hells angels bbq, ghost is not a good example of a RTS going to a third/first person action game.

The next logical step for the guild wars franchise is not what you have in mind, despite your strange little desire for an all in one game, it will not happen next week. The real next logical step if for the guild worlds developers is to tweak game balance, and introduce new content to keep the playerbase involved until they release a large expansion that people will buy.

Oh and, the games you listed, you did mention as flops....yes, flop they did, but what makes you think that NCsoft could succeed where so many other competent companies have failed?

You know what, nevermind, Im really f'ing tired and I dont have all night to go through and pick apart your crazy ass thought process. Just take a sedative or something.

Sjoerd · May 15, 2005, 10:25 AM // 10:25

FRS and RTS are the most boring game types ever created. Every FPS is identical to any other FPS, only different are the graphic engines as the GameD00Ds who play those games think that a good game comes from good graphics.
RTS games have the same problem. They are all mage boring. All you need to do for hour is hoard resources and then launch a devastating attack against the computer, who's AI is far too lacking to match the human mind. Playing in a multiplayer game is in RTS games usually very crap as most people can;t host well.
I personally truely *HATE* FPS and RTS games and I'll never buy any of them. Although I admit that the games industry needs them as they are good ways to fund research in graphic improvements and AI improvements - as truely the only difference between Doom 1 and Unreal Tournament 26 (or whatever version they are on) are the graphics and area maps.

Kalrakhi · May 15, 2005, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjoerd

as truely the only difference between Doom 1 and Unreal Tournament 26 (or whatever version they are on) are the graphics and area maps.

You couldn't jump in the first Doom

I'm a big fan of all 3 of these games. I love RPG's and RTS's for there simple lay back and chill out factor - ie: you don't really have to be awake to play Guild Wars and be good at it. I am heavily into Unreal Tournament 2k3 and that is a game that you have to be alert whilst playing otherwise you will get shot alot.

FPS take more skill than any other game, its not a case of "Ha, I'm lvl 654 n00b you dont stand a chance" you just log on, server up and play. RPG's are generally the case of lvl dictates mostly all in pvp etc and an rpg just requires the player to be able to lvl like a nutter for weeks in order to get better. I have played Legend of Mir and that was a much harder game than Guild Wars.

Still, all 3 game genres have a place in my gaming life

Sjoerd · May 15, 2005, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalrakhi

FPS take more skill than any other game, its not a case of "Ha, I'm lvl 654 n00b you dont stand a chance" you just log on, server up and play. RPG's are generally the case of lvl dictates mostly all in pvp etc and an rpg just requires the player to be able to lvl like a nutter for weeks in order to get better

True. It's a matter of preference really. I've grown up with rule based games like Guild Wars (rule based games are game in which your chance to hit and so are dependand on numbers and randomizers) and I truely love them. I like the stats and math behind it a lot. I like to optimize characters and in an RPG I can see the numbers as a way of it. In Guild Wars, more than any game I played so far, deciding in what attribute you will put a few points and what skills work well together really makes you think of whats the best choice. I like that a lot. I rather let my chances be decided by a randomizer and knowing that my character is good but I might have rotten luck than by how precisely I can point my mouse (like in an FPS). As I said, it's a matter of preference.
As for PVP, I don't like PVP at all so that's not really an issue for me. I played in the arena in Old Ascalon once recently. And although our team did kick butt (12 wins in a row), I really prefer to play cooperative missions. A rule based game lends it self excellently for that.
I know that most RTS games are rule based as well. I played a few (Command & Conquer, Star Trek Armada, Dawn of War) but I find them all lacking at the same point: recourses. All of them require you to gather resources. So far I have seen only two strategy games which are really up to my liking: A Birthright and Medieval Total War - now that are cool games. They both are very similar and include turn based movements of units and then real time battlefields. During those battlefields however you don't manage resources or whatever. You start with an army on the battlefield, and with that army you'll have to win. There are no extra gains by building stuff or capturing resource locations or whatever. If you want to expand your army you will have to do so in the turnbased parts where you can earn taxes from the lands you have conquered and so.
Such forms of game are far more my style than any lame RTS where all you need to do is gather resources faster than your opponent and while you manage your resources your units out side the screen get slaughtered without your knowledge.

Grim_Grom · May 15, 2005, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Every FPS is identical to any other FPS,

HAH! Tell them that on the bloody UT2004 forums. No quite simply their not. I'd say that Call of Duty is different to Quake 3, wouldn't you? Heck there even based on the same engine, yet they are completely different. Anyway, that's off the topic. But look at Warcraft it went from RTS to RPG [Well Warcraft 3 was kind of RPGish] to MMOG. So maybe GW will do the same thing, except backwards.

Sjoerd · May 15, 2005, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim_Grom

I'd say that Call of Duty is different to Quake 3

It's both mindless walk and shoot. Wether the setting is sci-fi, ww2 or vietnam doesnt really matter.

Mountain Man · May 15, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Legend

I'd love to see a Guild Wars FPS game in the style of Hexen.

Sounds like Hellgate: London is your type of game.

Skult · May 15, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Legend

You chose from 5 classes, and ran around collecting loot and beating up enemies in a very fast paced game. Playing multiplayer was great as you could form a party and explore the game together.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this already sounds like Guild Wars, or least it is the type of game I am playing.

r0tc0d · May 15, 2005, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

It's both mindless walk and shoot. Wether the setting is sci-fi, ww2 or vietnam doesnt really matter.

Yeah... I think you need to play competitve online FPSes before you say that.

Sure, if you join a Deathmatch server with rockets only on... its going to incredibly fast/mindless shooting... but go to a rifles only server... and then see what mindlessly running around gets you.... 3-50 score is what it gets you...

Games like CoD take MUCH skill, especially with the "iron sights/realistic aiming" feature it has...

UT:2004 takes a lot of coordination between team mates when trying to capture a flag or destroy and OBJ.

FPSes make you use your senses more than any other type of game... I get a LARGE part of my kills in Counter-Strike due to me listening to other players foot steps... in Vietnam games, a much used strategy is blurring your eyes and losing focus on the screen so that any type of enemy motion stands out.

To me large part RPGs are extremely mindless compared to FPSes... you just run around clicking doing the same spells over and over, looting, going to the next town, selling loot, buying new armor/weapons.

But I love both types of games.

kerpow · May 16, 2005, 04:12 AM // 04:12

I really don't care what a game company decides to do with their time unless I'm paying for them to update the game. Since this isn't the case with Guild Wars it doesn't bother me. I'd rather have a Guild Wars Cola, however. It's a blend of high energy nutritional supplaments to keep you awake while playing Guild Wars

.

...

Every game needs some sort of skill. FPSes take twitch skill. RTSes take vast game knowledge. MMOs take social skill. Guild Wars uses twitch skill, vast game knowledge, and social skills. You can get away without much aptitude in any of these but you will do much better with all three.

...

Oh yeah, attack the post; not the poster.

Dreamsmith · May 16, 2005, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0tc0d

FPSes make you use your senses more than any other type of game... I get a LARGE part of my kills in Counter-Strike due to me listening to other players foot steps... in Vietnam games, a much used strategy is blurring your eyes and losing focus on the screen so that any type of enemy motion stands out.

That's certainly true. Does Counter-Strike feature different surfaces making different sounds?

The only FPS games I ever played that I thought actually required any real skill were the Thief series game. Until those came along, every FPS I'd seen was just a point and click fest -- I place the crosshairs on my enemy's head and pull the trigger, boom, "Head shot!" Dead enemy. Is this supposed to be diffcult? *shrug* But Thief was different, requiring a lot more planning, a lot better timing, a lot more care in executing your actions, and generally a lot more attention paid to what was happening around you, using your senses to provide vast amounts of information about what was going on around you. ("Okay, he just walked across the metal grate, he's now about two seconds away from turning the corner... one... two... GO!")

If CS features that kind of sensual gameplay, it might actually be fun, but I suspect at some point it degenerates to the old point and shoot gameplay, which is pretty boring as far as I'm concerned. If you can just shoot your way through any situation, it really takes a lot of the thought and skill out of the game, IMHO. Thief was exciting because you couldn't really just bulldoze through any situation with superior firepower, since you didn't have it -- just about everyone was better at combat than you. You had to outthink and outmaneuver your enemies, rather than simply outshoot them.

Sekkira · May 16, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0tc0d

Yeah... I think you need to play competitve online FPSes before you say that.

Sure, if you join a Deathmatch server with rockets only on... its going to incredibly fast/mindless shooting... but go to a rifles only server... and then see what mindlessly running around gets you.... 3-50 score is what it gets you...

Games like CoD take MUCH skill, especially with the "iron sights/realistic aiming" feature it has...

UT:2004 takes a lot of coordination between team mates when trying to capture a flag or destroy and OBJ.

FPSes make you use your senses more than any other type of game... I get a LARGE part of my kills in Counter-Strike due to me listening to other players foot steps... in Vietnam games, a much used strategy is blurring your eyes and losing focus on the screen so that any type of enemy motion stands out.

To me large part RPGs are extremely mindless compared to FPSes... you just run around clicking doing the same spells over and over, looting, going to the next town, selling loot, buying new armor/weapons.

But I love both types of games.

I had a friend post in this topic saying pretty much what this dude is saying, yet got deleted. What is the mod/admin that took this action thinking?

Dreamsmith · May 16, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

I had a friend post in this topic saying pretty much what this dude is saying, yet got deleted. What is the mod/admin that took this action thinking?

That depends, was it the post that started out by calling someone a "juvenile idiot" or the one that called anyone who disagreed with him mindless, completely and utterly ignorant, and told them not to post if they don't know what they're talking about (which is to say, they disagreed with him on this issue)?

EnDinG · May 16, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Dream, if your looking for an indepth game, try Americas Army. www.americasarmy.com / www.aaotracker.com

I played it for about two years (about a year ago now) and it was one of the best games I've ever played for real type of gaming. Footsteps, movement, sounds, etc etc...

They put detail into the game that should be in most games like it. The graphics are perfect. Of course, what else would you expect from a game created by the military?

A new version is about to be released, making me think I might play again but I lose GW time. Doh.

Can give it a try and see if you like it... =) I use to be one of the best solo pipeline players out there. Can't remember my tracker name, I think it was [CO]Ending or secret_ending.

Soul Monarch · May 16, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

I consider myself a comprehensive gamer. I love RPG, FPS, RTS, Fighting, Action... pretty much anything but racing games. (Although, I admit there have been a few I enjoyed.

)

That being said, I think the concept of Guild Wars as a FPS or RTS is on of the worst ideas I have ever heard. No offense it meant, of course, but it just sounds really dumb. Of course, when World of Warcraft was announced I said the same thing, and it turned out to be pretty darn cool.

The moral of the story is: If the developers think it shows some promise and make a game out of it, always judge the game on it own merits.

But until they prove me wrong by making a cool GuildWars FPS, I still think it sounds dumb.

Manderlock · May 16, 2005, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Everyone has threir own preference, to say that one type of game is "mindless" just shows everyone that you are a moron. One that has no clue as to what he is talking about

I love FPS they are great fun when you just need to sit down and play a quick fun game. (dont get me wrong some of thoughs guys are just damn good, and can kill ANYONE they need to)

RTS has to be one of my favorite genres. Simply because that type of game takes true skill. (Everyone starts out equal, so the best player wins)

Dont be "haten" on other types of games. Just because you dont like it (and will say in one way or another that it sucks) dosent make it law.

Tur713 · May 17, 2005, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Exactly! Thank you Manderlock. Maybe all games in a certain genre seem the same to some of you, maybe that's because they're a GENRE! They're catagorised by their similarities. Why can't I love Guild Wars and Halo 2? They're both fun games.

Floh Fatedefiler · May 17, 2005, 06:13 PM // 18:13

CS isnt just a point and click game if you actually try to use strategy... ever knifed for a whole map? you gotta be smart and listen while trying to come up behind them... anyway, back on topic. I think a guild wars FPS would be fun just because it would require more individual skill (aiming and such).. instead of being weighted more twards strategy. Now if only they could come out with a good MMOFPS. an FPS with a huge world and mobs sounds really fun to me. can you imagine trying to travel across a large distance with other players hunting you? it would bring camping to an all new lvl though =p

FPS skill = athletes
RTS skill = chess players

Dreamsmith · May 17, 2005, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floh Fatedefiler

I think a guild wars FPS would be fun just because it would require more individual skill (aiming and such).. instead of being weighted more twards strategy.

I think that's where you hit the social divide between the FPS crowd and the non-FPS crowd. "Aiming" isn't skill, at least, not skill worth mentioning. I figured out how to use a mouse back in the early 80's. Games that require me to aim just aren't very demanding, skill-wise, to me. It's like saying shopping in the mall requires skill because I have to actually walk from store to store. Um, sure, yes, technically, walking is a skill too, but not something I actually have to think about or put any real effort in. Coming up with and executing smart strategies, OTOH, takes real skill.

Quote:

FPS skill = athletes
RTS skill = chess players

I'd agree, if FPS's actually required any athletic skill. Mostly, though, they seem to require mousing skill. After two decades, mousing has become second nature to me, I don't even think of it as a skill, any more than walking.

I liked the Thief series FPS games because they required real skills, the kind you actually had to think about, observe, plan, and execute. If other FPS games also have that level of strategizing involved, then indeed they do require skill. But "aiming" is not a skill, at least, not one worth mentioning as far as I'm concerned.

I've heard some of these games have "auto-aim" hacks that give some players an advantage, because it makes them play better than a human would be. That never happens in any game that I consider requiring actual skill, because computers can't do any skill worth mentioning better than humans. Indeed, compare the henchmen in Guild Wars to a human player, and they normally lose, because their AI doesn't play with the level of skill a human can. AI just isn't that good. This is invariably true in any game of skill. If bots are better in a game, it's because that game is just a test of reflexes rather than a test of real skill.